French man ripped veil from Muslim woman's face

Nemo

I love reading these recurring comments saying "when in Rome, do as Romans do" or "French are French" etc. whenever there are similar news..

Thank god that you guys were not around when people were fighting against the apartheid regime in South Africa or the nazi regime in Germany, because hey, you know, "When in Rome do as Romans do", "South Africans do not allow the black people to ride in the same bus as whites, we should respect that"!

In case you haven't heard, basic human rights cannot be approached in this manner. This is not about driving on a certain side of the road or the fine amount for littering...

abusidra

The combined rate of crimes in Saudia in a year perhaps equals a week of crime in just NY. You can check the statistics. The respect women enjoys in our culture is their right and not a favor. Muslims believe mother is 3 times more important than father and heaven lies beneath her feet. Prophet Muhamad (pbuh) instructed, the women to be treated kindly and also said the best amongst us is the ones who are best to their wives. The one who brings up daughters in a nice way and get them married, screens himself from hellfire. So dear, we don't dictate or persuade them to wear revealing dress even in offices, whereas the gentlemen comes fully dressed, the barbies are blonde and busty, whereas the spiderman and batman are covered? Who dictates this to small children to dress like they dress when they growup, to satisfy whom and quench the thirst of whose eyes in the name of freedom, they made women an object free from everything. shame shame. Be sincere to yourself, don't be blind with bias.

john

@abusidra you are living in the stone ages. In a few generations, even KSA will allow women to dress as they please. It's called progress. Better get used to it...

mumeen

Very well said Abusidra. Making their daughters, wives, sisters and mothers naked in front of the whole world is called the 'freedom', 'women's emancipation', etc., by the atheist world's men. Having women behind veil and behind doors is the best dignity a man can have of his manhood, and fatherhood, whether they accept it or not.

NKYC

I do not approve of what happened and personally I believe people should not take the law into their hands.
BUT like most people, the French have their own ways and culture which make them "French". If its not acceptable for the French that people in France do not cover their faces(a very reasonable thing)-that should be respected and followed by everyone there-else get out of there . If she doesnt like the French ways WHY is she hanging around there? Dont try to "correct" them into being a "Saudi Arabia" or "Afghanistan"-the perfect countries on earth. The majority of people in this world wishes to see them as French and their great country as France. If they think if something is wrong with them they know to correct it and they will. Dont teach them your ways---which you think are the only correct and perfect ways.


Suresh

Hisham, I think you exaggerate when you say "gang raping is normal " in India. Please do not tar the whole country with this brush. Yes there are many cases of rape and they are horrible, but talk to any one who has been to India and they will tell you that on the whole Indians are friendly, hospitable and take care of visitors and tourists.

India has a population of 1.2 Billion people. That is 400 times the population of Dubai. So each rape in Dubai makes it the equivalent of 400 rapes in India. And to think that India has a free press where everything is reported for the world t see.

Tens of thousands of expat expat workers in UAE often do not get their salaries on time, and hundreds of them have commit suicide as a result. Their employers often do not even get a fine , let alone going to jail. And yet there are thousand in jail for a bounced cheque, which may or may not have been their fault. Taxi drivers in UAE don't get a single day off in the month. Is this nice ?

Hisham

What I think is before anyone from a country where gang raping women is normal -and which also happens to regularly win the great prize for "worst country in the world for women" (yes, even above Afghanistan and Somalia)- makes a remark about women's rights, there should be quite a list of other things to address first... I also think the main issue here should be a woman's right to choose her wardrobe in a "free country" and a woman's right not to be attacked by a man! The latter will happen sometimes, but if 5 months suspended jail time is the only answer to that then we might as well move France up a few places on that aforementioned list.

Anders

I don't approve the French man's action to take the law in his own hands. However, when in Rome do as the Romans do. If you want to travel to the Middle East, there are certain guidelines to be respected - and this should be the case in Europe.

procan

Citizens arrest are legal,as the police cannot be every all the time .In power the people.

nimby

and manners and etiquette show themselves in actions, deeds and responses Abu sidra.

Look forward to seeing that one day from you.

SAM

I'm rich! I have 18 of my children to sell, tell me who to see and how to do it? That will give me enough cash to take the first boat to New York!

abusidra

If every Tom, dick and Harry is so passsionate about holding the (bigoted) law, then he should join the Forces and not act independently. Will it be okay if I break your bones just because I didn't like the way you speak or dressed? In UAE, even though it is painful and soreful for the eyes to encounter scantily dressed westeners, we take pride and observe patience to serve them. This is not called culture or Law, this is called MANNERS & etiquettes.

Heather

Dear Doug,
If you would like to observe how abusidra practices "MANNERS and ettiquettes," please note abusidra's response to my post in this thread. My name is Heather, and manners and ettiquette are not what you will see. Abusidra did me the "favor," ironically, of proving my point: that the kindness women merit and how they are treated varies from culture to culture. I will spend my time on websites where men and women can be treated with civility and mutual respect. The Muslims who live here in our hometown in North Carolina are very warm and welcoming, and I usually learn something new when we talk (there is a lot of interfaith outreach where I live.) If I get flamed in this forum, that's OK; I won't be reading this website anymore. Many of the posts are hateful and sophomoric (as you probably have discovered already. I thought your post was well-reasoned and humorous!) Blessings to you and all who were kind enough to read this.

Heather

In America, National Public Radio ran a story this week about a Middle Eastern doctor who borrowed money but the economy in his country (possibly Syria? Sorry, can't remember) was so distressed he could not earn the $2,500 back in time, no matter how hard he worked, to cover the debt when the note was due. His creditors took him to local court. The elders told him he could not "plead poverty" because he owned something of monetary value: his 6-year-0ld daughter. They ruled she was worth that much and he could repay the debt with his child. He gave them his little girl. The reason I mention this in reference to the news story: yes, French police, not civilians, should enforce the law. But given the vast chasm between the values and culture of these two societies, it's amazing they co-exist as peacefully as they do.

Someone

You are what you wear, a person is judged by what he wears and what he doesnt. Those who say respect is in the hearts should ask themselves what they wear to office. Will any person turn up wearing a baseball cap and shorts or a bikini for an interview. Never!!! Well, unless the job being interviewed demands so!! Every culture has its norms of what is acceptable or not! In islam, this appropriateness/inappropriateness is clearly codified leaving no rooms for doubt! Thats because we muslims dont make our own rules! We are govenrned by the rule of God.

Oldtimer

Why this great confusion? To me it is very simple. First you have to decide if you should open up your country and integrate more with other countries in order to become a global partner in trade, tourism, culture, education etc. or if you want to remain insular and hold on to your traditions without any exposure to alien culture. You cannot expect to have foreign movies, clothes, education & tourists in your country and be surprised when there is some integration of the western life style! You cannot send your children to study in western countries and expect them not to imbibe a bit of that culture. Most of us call it globalization and welcome this understanding of other cultures. No one expects Saudi to change, so why should France? You cannot have double standards; don't expect to have your cake & eat it too!

Hisham

On one hand, the country should not limit people in what they do or don't wear. What's next? Ban on baseball caps? Shoes with no shoe strings? Hair shorter than X-centimeter? On the other hand, muslim women who wear the veil so that they don't attract attention from men, should understand that in Western countries you're achieving the opposite and attracting attention from EVERYONE. However, it's nothing new that France has different standards for minorities and that it's an extremely racist country. (North) Africans have known this for decades. Maybe that should be a key focus point. In the end, the best way to radicalize a minority group is to point them out, persecute them and cast them out.

2fillsworth

Qatari, I forgot your are an expert in Western Cultures and Norms.

In most western countries and cultures, someone completly covering their face in public is not normal make people uncomfortable and is not inline with our social practices, so your arguement is flawed.

You ask anyone in a western country, Europe, Americas, even Asian countries if they accept it, most will tell you they dont.

So therefore if the vast majority of people do not like it and a law prevents it based on various reasons, then why the issue.

Do you hear western women complaining about having to wear an abaya in Public in Saudi? No, because the accept the rules and laws and follow it.

One final point, as you regularly say, if they dont like it, then they can leave, right!

Qatari

@Doug, Face covering in the west is not offensive, stop making up and believing it.

Hisham

I've never said it is required, in fact, what you may not have understood is that I would not recommend women in Europe to cover their face in public. I think that's clear if you read my first post above. Since there is a lot of interpretation and ancient (pre-Islamic) culture tangled in there, nobody can really be sure whether there is a religious basis for it. Personally I have never had any woman in my family who covered her face. However, what I AM saying is that -should a woman choose to cover her face (for whatever reason)- then let her! What if it's her choice? Her way of feeling comfortable. Then why limit a woman in that freedom of choice. BTW, there is clearly a trend in the radicalisation of anti-islamism in Europe. Today it's this, but I can almost guarantee you the next thing they'll want to ban is the entire hijab. Try to ban the yarmulke (something I would definitely not agree on either) and see what happens...


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